vt20的用户进来讨论下

haili98

我刚入手VT25一周, 专门用来看电影, 接海美迪的播发机, 几种模式试了一遍, 最后选了THX, 前提是要拉上窗帘,关灯, 效果很满意, 很有电影的感觉. 音响效果勉强可以接受, 暂时不买音响了.

中文说明书:

欧洲说明书:

美国说明书:


http://www.avforums.com/review/Panasonic-VT20-TX-P50VT20-VT20-3D-Plasma-Review.html
So first of all we have the Intelligent Frame Creation (IFC) which is a motion compensation technology that interpolates frames. Basically this means that the TV looks at upcoming frames in the TV show or Film and then guesses what frames should be added in between to make motion look smoother. The positive effect of this is that all 1080 lines of resolution should become visible on screen. However plasma technology because of its fast response times doesn’t really have an issue with motion blur like an LCD TV would. Without the IFC function switched on and using the FPD Benchmark Blu-ray test pattern we could clearly make out just over 900 lines of resolution on the moving chart, with IFC turned on it made the resolution more stable to 1080 lines. However it also added some artefacts to the image. When moving to real world material on both TV tuner and Blu-ray with IFC engaged (it’s called 24p smooth film when BDs are played) the image did look smooth but also gave the image a false ‘soap opera’ look. This means that film which should have a certain look to it, was now presented like it was shot on cheap digital video cameras. This completely robbed the image of what natural motion it should have and I would recommend leaving it switched off. Not only does motion look odd with IFC on both Film and TV shows but the processing also adds in artefacts where its guessing goes wrong.

..............

Moving to HD material provided excellent results with both interlaced and progressive formats. We saw no issues to detract from your viewing pleasure and also no back door processing interfering with the HD images. 24p playback was again in multiples’ of the frame rate (96Hz) with no interpolation unless you use the 24P smooth option. However, with film material this adds unwanted artefacts, and motion looks strange. We would advise this option is left switched off.


http://www.highdefforum.com/flat-panel-tvs/120456-just-got-my-panny-vt20-25-one-question-though.html

Terminology - the mode I believe would be THX,Cinema,Vivid etc. and is easily found in the menu. To activate 96hz you need to go under Picture--> advanced settings - and then scroll down until you see it displayed. It should be defaulted at 60hz. (If you are not receiving a 24hz signal it will be grayed out - you can only change it when a 24fps/hz signal is up). At least that is where it is on my '08 model.

65VT20 manual似乎没有认真做

[ 本帖最后由 holmes840106 于 2010-12-14 02:41 编辑 ]

haili98

谢谢LS, 我只有英文说明书, 看着头大.

quits

原帖由 潜龙谍影snake 于 2010-12-14 00:42 发表
来晚了，sorry！[s:19][s:19]

VT20，我一般都是选THX模式，连接S470 BDP，开启24p，再到电视里的“其他设置”这一项里把24p smooth film play back打开，


然后把色温稍稍往上拉点（在我看来，THX模式有点黄） ...

那玩游戏的话会不会有比较强烈的抖动感？
没有动态清晰度强化功能  智能场频控制又没有用的话...

xtwgi1980

这个要顶的.......

yurual

原帖由 潜龙谍影snake 于 2010-12-14 00:42 发表
来晚了，sorry！[s:19][s:19]

VT20，我一般都是选THX模式，连接S470 BDP，开启24p，再到电视里的“其他设置”这一项里把24p smooth film play back打开，


然后把色温稍稍往上拉点（在我看来，THX模式有点黄） ...

1.昨天研究了一下，在htpc的显卡设置里面选择 1080p 24 hz的profile, vt20的显示信息就是1080P 24hz了，应该算是打开24P了
然后再在thx模式下开24p平滑的功能，电影人物的动作效果的确变得更柔滑平顺。但好像avforum的一些专业评测好像不推荐打开
Moving to HD material provided excellent results with both interlaced and progressive formats.  We saw no issues to detract from your viewing pleasure and also no back door processing interfering with the HD images.  24p playback was again in multiples’ of the frame rate (96Hz) with no interpolation unless you use the 24P smooth option.  However, with film material this adds unwanted artefacts, and motion looks strange.  We would advise this option is left switched off.
这段话意思貌似是开了 24P smooth option，电影效果增加了一些不需要的加工痕迹。。anyway,好还是不好，大家眼睛收货把.
2.大家找的在vt20里面96hz的选项么？
老外的回答：Terminology - the mode I believe would be THX,Cinema,Vivid etc. and is easily found in the menu. To activate 96hz you need to go under Picture--> advanced settings -
今天回家再去找找
3.智能场频的功能，按照ls贴的说明书，应该是被24p 平滑取代。在新的机器里面，取消了。

yurual

开机研究了下，有了新的理解
2 96hz @24P 意思应该是在24hz输入时候自动激活。但如果选择开启24P smooth功能，96hz会自动被关闭
3.智能场频的功能，在hdmi输入时24hz的时候，会bei24p smooth功能取代

[ 本帖最后由 yurual 于 2010-12-14 12:09 编辑 ]

我理解正好相反，24p输入的时候：
1.在不开启24P smooth的情况下，电视仍然以"正常输出"，就是以PAL或者NTSC输出，这样就是说以PAL 50Hz(实际是48Hz)或者NTSC 3:2 pull down 60Hz，在中国当然是48Hz，我注意到老美的说明书上有写48Hz是有flicker的，只推荐60Hz或者96Hz，侧面说明了为什么你不开24p smooth功能会看起来很难看。在这里对实话实说的美国说明书表示钦佩。
2.在开启24P smooth的情况下，既然中文说明都明确说是插针原理，那么我认为，这个功能将开启96Hz，这与avforum review提到的插针功能符合。插针会使得画面流畅，因为会通过cpu计算出两帧中间的帧以填补进去，这是插针的原理。注意是计算，不是复制，那么老外的观点是，计算有两个坏处，a.计算可能会算错，这点有个针对液晶电视200Hz的试验，engadget上有一篇测试文，提到算错的情况下画面就会失真，这应该是所谓的flicker，你看到的fifa重影可能属于这种情况；b.计算使画面"过于"流畅，见老外写的评论，"像手持廉价摄像机拍出来的"，言下之意，给人以不是电影的感觉。据我观察，这点和论坛上存在的"顿挫感"观点是一个意思吧。

智能场频 这个功能我没找到在VT20哪里出现，官方网站上搜索这个词，只提到在老机器如PZ880上面有这个东西，具体是什么看来要查带有这个功能的型号的说明书才知道，有兴趣的可以研究
http://panasonic.cn/products/dig ... /specification.html
不管怎样，VT20只提到600Hz、24P、96Hz，这也是国外review提到和关注的东西，电视就是工作在600Hz，还纠结于什么智能场频干嘛，480Hz，600Hz不过是技术革新芯片换代而已，人眼恐怕也分辨不出，我想这就是为什么国外没人讨论600Hz的好处吧，没意义。

哦，中文说明书在这里：
http://panasonic.cn/support/download/?parentid=1&cateid=2&productid=1475&typeid=1

松下官网上都有，美国说明书在美国官网上-_-'，欧洲说明书不太好找，官网直接连接出错，我是google VT20 manual Europe，就找到了一个叫panasonic europe service的链接，看样子也是官网。
anyway...还是以自己眼睛和经验感觉为选择方向吧。

[ 本帖最后由 holmes840106 于 2010-12-14 14:45 编辑 ]

yurual

原帖由 holmes840106 于 2010-12-14 14:37 发表
我理解正好相反，24p输入的时候：
1.在不开启24P smooth的情况下，电视仍然以"正常输出"，就是以PAL或者NTSC输出，这样就是说以PAL 50Hz(实际是48Hz)或者NTSC 3:2 pull down 60Hz，在中国当然是48Hz，我注意到老美的 ...

24p playback was again in multiples’ of the frame rate (96Hz) with no interpolation unless you use the 24P smooth option
这句话的意思就是： 96hz就是把24hz的每一帧画面重复4次而已。
而打开24p smooth功能之后，在中间的插帧，电视机经过了对运动物体的预判和处理。会造成失真，但人眼的感觉更流畅.但松下貌似不把这种智能插针叫做96hz
所以关闭24p smooth，即打开了96hz

[ 本帖最后由 yurual 于 2010-12-14 16:40 编辑 ]

yurual

争论这个hz没啥必要，说来说去，输入是24p的时候，就一个24p smooth好调整，On /off怎么顺眼怎么调

linyq009

受教了！希望以后多些VT20的讨论.心得！特别是潜龙大人要多出来指点啊，别管那些世界大辩论了--上火[s:29] [s:29]

p992

原帖由 holmes840106 于 2010-12-14 02:29 发表
中文说明书:
2443840
欧洲说明书:
2443841
美国说明书:
2443844

http://www.avforums.com/review/Panasonic-VT20-TX-P50VT20-VT20-3D-Plasma-Review.html
So first of all we have the Intelligent Frame C ...

说明书是个好东西，但很多人总是忽视说明书，遇到难题，先翻说明书，往往能够解决很多疑问[s:97]


这张截图其实很清楚的标明了哪些功能在哪些特定条件下会启用，又是什么效果


[ 本帖最后由 p992 于 2010-12-14 19:41 编辑 ]

更正我前面的假设。
24p 输入的时候，VT20会以96Hz输出，这是个好消息，x4 96Hz输出比x2(或称2:2 pull down) 48Hz理论上就好很多。
目前仍然不明白：
1. 美国说明书 24p in的情况下仍然可以选60Hz和48Hz，难道以下松下客服是针对欧洲客户说的么？美国说明书居然没有提到任何IFC功能。不过这个留给地球那头的人关心才是。
2. 插针是怎么计算的，中国和欧洲说明书没提到96Hz，美国说明书又没提IFC，真郁闷。不过既然据说不开IFC比较好，反正就这么一个选项，开不开一看便知，也无所谓了。
问题自己消失了...cheers
参考：
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1263199

I think it's definitely tied to 24p video. I've tested 3 VT25s in 3 different stores. On only one of them could I select 96Hz refresh. The piss poor manual does not provide any explanation or prerequisites for being able to do this so I did an online chat with Panny yesterday, here is what they said:

Agent Philip R says: "You can only select 96hz if you are receiving 24p input from the source. This requires that the bluray dvd have 24p ability and that the bluray player have the ability and be set to output 24p. The tv must also be set for 24p reception.and, of course, HDMI must be used version 1.3."