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应会员“雨轩”要求贴上来自avsforum.com的完整翻译：
Panasonic 11G/12G black levels have seemingly doubled over night?
松下 11G/12G的黑位在夜间看上去加倍了？
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So I knew this has been a problem with Panasonics in the past, but I was kind of hoping it was going to be gradual and not so drastic if it happened at all on the new models. I currently have less than 400 hours on the set. Last set of readings I took before I noticed the (obvious) difference was on the 21st of July, and they were still showing the expected range of 0.008-0.010fL. I was able to duplicate this measure at least 5 or 6 times and never once recorded anything higher. Then came last night, I turned the TV on and it was like a slap in the face, I thought I had changed a setting somewhere (RGB levels, or jacked up brightness somehow), but everything was the same. I got out my meter and measured a surprising .017-.019fL range. I should emphasize I only got out the meter because the difference was so dramatic. It was not a matter of confirming there was a problem, it was a matter of confirming how bad the problem was. Any ideas what could be causing this? Maybe a power supply problem or something? Kind of got me thinking about HDGuru's unexpected MLL findings in their G10/V10 comparison--2 panels that are known to produce near identical black levels. I'm concerned this may be "by design" so to speak.
我已经知道这是松下过去的一个问题，但我还是希望这在新产品上会逐渐缓和并且不那么激烈。我目前使用时间不足400小时。在我注意到明显变化之前的最近一次读数是在7月21号，读数仍然显示在0.008-0.010fL的期望值。我能至少重复测量五六遍，没有一次记录到更高的值。昨天晚上，我打开电视，就像脸上被扇了耳光一样，我想可能是我改变过一些设置（RGB 电平，或者不知怎的提升了亮度），但所有的都没变。我取出仪表，测出了惊人的.017-.019fL范围。我要强调，我取出仪表只是因为这种变化太强烈了。这已经不是有没有毛病的问题了，而是毛病有多严重的问题。是什么导致这个问题呢？或许是供电问题什么的？有点让我想起HDGuru在比较G10/V10时的意外MLL发现——2个面版已知能产生几乎一致的黑位。这么说来我担心这是设计问题。
G10 Contrast Ratio @ ~200 hours: 4906:1--Black level 0.008fL（图）
G10 Contrast Ratio @ ~400 hours: 2348:1--Black Level 0.018fL（图）
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Panasonic's Official Response to the Issue as of 2/4/10
"Automatic Control of Contrast over Operational Lifetime."
Panasonic Viera plasma HDTVs deliver exceptional picture performance throughout the lifetime of these products. Various elements and material characteristics of all electronic displays change with use over time. In order to achieve the optimal picture performance throughout the life of the set, Panasonic Viera plasma HDTVs incorporate an automatic control which adjusts an internal driving voltage at predetermined intervals of operational hours.
As a result of this automatic voltage adjustment, background brightness will increase from its initial value. After several years of typical use, the internal material characteristics will stabilize and no additional automatic voltage adjustments are required. The Black Level at this stabilized point will yield excellent picture performance.
The newest Viera plasma HDTVs incorporate an improved automatic control which applies the voltage adjustments in smaller increments. This results in a more gradual change in the Black Level over time."
====10年2月4日松下对该问题的官方回应：====
“使用期内的自动对比度调整”
松下Viera等离子电视机在其使用期间提供出众的画质表现。所有显示设备的元件和材料特性会在使用过程中发生改变。为了让产品在整个使用期内达到最佳的画面效果，松下Viera等离子电视使用了一种自动控制，它按照预先设定的使用间隔期调整内部驱动电压。
这种自动电压调整的结果是，背景亮度会比初始值增加。经过几年的正常（原文Typical）使用，内部材料特性将会稳定，也不再需要额外的电压调整。在这个稳定点上的黑位就会产生极佳的图像效果。
最新的Viera等离子电视使用了改进的自动控制，电压调整幅度更小。这导致黑位随着时间的变化更缓慢了。
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Thread Updates
D-Nice, through contacts at Panasonic, has confirmed this rising black level affects ALL 11G/12G ('08/'09) models at a specific hour count. There is no fix planned and it is apparently an unintentional goof on Panasonic's part.
xrox has discovered patents registered to Panasonic that describe very similar behavior. He theorizes the significance of the change is unintentional and attributed to old software, premature, or overly aggressive voltage changes.
Battousai reports that Panasonic has seemingly confirmed "blacks get lighter over time, and it's just the nature of these sets".
A veteran AV Tech (Iciallo) suggests this is possibly a "programmed change in the low level activation behavior" to account for the panel aging.
Most affected users report that Image Retention and Phosphorescence become significantly worse post-elevation.
Cnet has posted a couple news stories on the issue: The first is basically a summary of this thread. The second is effectively a description and admission (by Panasonic) of the patents xrox dug up--confirming black levels get worse over time to promote panel life and a promise they've "gradualized" it on the new models. Whether this refers to the 2009's being sold in stores as of the writing/response or the forthcoming 2010's+ is anyone's guess.
Gizmodo, Engadget, and Slashgear have also picked up on the story.
====最新进展====
通过与松下的交流，D-Nice 确认，这种黑位的提高在特定的时间影响所有11G/12G (08年/09年)产品。没有准备修补，这很明显是松下的一个不经意的玩笑。
xrox发现松下注册了描述了相似行为的专利。他推断这种改变并非有意，而是由于旧软件、早期产品或者过分积极的电压调整导致。
Battousai报告说，松下似乎证实了“黑位随着时间变化，这是机器的天性”。
一个老 AV 技术员(Iciallo) 认为这可能是为了对付面板老化而采取的 "事先规划好的黑场激活行为"
Cnet发出两条关于此事的新闻故事：一个基本是这一事件的摘要。第二个实际上是对xrox发现的专利的描述和（来自松下的）承认——确认为了延长面板寿命，黑位随着时间变差以及对新产品升级的承诺。这到底是指2009年从写出问题/回应起，在商店里已经卖掉的，还是指在将来的2010年以后，谁也说不准。
Gizmodo，Engadget，和Slashgear 注意到这件事。
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Additional Measurements and Observations
*The issue has ballooned past the point where it's necessary or practical to link to individual observations, there are numerous reports of affected users (in addition to the below) buried in the thread.*
Several users suspect they have observed the same change: Battousai, Blaken, Pendragoon, akk5000, iVersatile, Plasmafan09, CraigGB, eurocuroc, cold-fusion, smoof15, martin-per, dmichael, MPDamon, exbagboy, tlivesay, killayaw, curly, rick1000
A few users suspect the S1 is affected as well: Lambo, C Tedesco
Donnymac51 suspects he has measured the change on the V10 (2000 hour update)
A few users have measured inflated levels on their G10/G15 as well: slovst, Vistekrebel, Smeg36, Richard, Sakke
LarryInRI has measured a change on the X1.
====更多的测量和观察====
*这事件已经远远不是个别问题了, 有大量受影响的用户报告 (除了下面这些以外) 没有列出.*
一些用户观察到同样变化：Battousai, Blaken, Pendragoon, akk5000, iVersatile, Plasmafan09, CraigGB, eurocuroc, cold-fusion, smoof15, martin-per, dmichael, MPDamon, exbagboy, tlivesay, killayaw, curly, rick1000
一小部分用户怀疑S1也受到了影响：Lambo, C Tedesco
Donnymac51怀疑他在V10测量到同样变化(2000 hour update)。
一小部分用户也在G10/G15上测量到夸张的色阶：slovst, Vistekrebel, Smeg36, Richard, Sakke
LarryInRI 测量到了X1上的变化.
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Potential Fixes
iVersatile reports a panel replacement fixes the issue and restores original levels (though only temporarily). Repair tech was amazed at the difference.
Bucknuts also reports success with a panel replacement restoring levels--likely only temporarily.
There have been conflicting reports of "A-Board" replacements fixing (and not fixing) the problem. The majority suggests this is an unsuccessful fix.
Battousai has had apparent success with an "A-board" and "SS-board" replacement improving levels. Possibly only a temporary fix.
====可能的解决办法====
iVersatile报告面板替换解决了问题，回复到原始的水平（临时的而已）。修理工对变化感到惊讶。
Bucknuts 也报告替换面板恢复了色阶——似乎只是暂时的。
对"A-Board"替换能不能解决问题有矛盾的反馈。大多数显示是失败的。
Battousai通过替换"A-board" 和 "SS-board"已经显然成功提升灰阶。可能只是临时解决。
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Frequently Asked Questions
"Can this change be calibrated out?"
No, a "Brightness" setting of 0 measures the same MLL. You can see the data here.
"What about the "Black Level" settings of "Light" and "Dark" in the user menu?
This setting has no affect on the MLL of the panel, it just crushes low percent stimuli (shadow detail) to black. The "Light" and "Dark" settings both measure exactly the same on black. I assume the option is intended to increase perceived contrast.
"What model lines are affected?"
There are measured reports for the X1, G10/15, and V10 linked to in the Thread Updates section above. The PX/PZ lines from 2008 also seem to be affected (see intro paragraph). D-Nice's Panasonic contacts suggested all consumer class 2008 and 2009 model lines are affected.
"Why might some suspect their units are NOT affected?
Obviously I can't say with any degree of certainty that every single unit is affected, but I can provide some reasons why it might not be noticeable to everyone. First you have to consider the environment. All these models have relatively poor anti-reflective/light-blocking filters, so any ambient light that hits the screen makes this issue very very difficult to notice. Obviously this describes pretty much everyone, very few people view displays in a totally blacked out room. Taking this one step further, to have a truly accurate recollection and perception of the MLL's, you would have to almost view the panel exclusively in this blacked out room as any washed out daytime or lit use could potentially bias ones impression. Lastly, you have to consider people's performance expectations. Post-elevation, these panels produce MLL's and CR's largely on par with mid-range CCFL LCD's from 2008 (e.g. Samsung A550/650/750/Etc). Most users and reviewers described these makes as having "Strong, Deep Blacks" and "High Contrast Ratio's", so it's understandable why some might not identify this as an issue.
"Whats up with the IR/Phosphorescence? It looks nasty in a lot the pics!"
xrox suggests the most probable explanation is that "pixels that were discharged contain way too much wall charge and therefore cannot be properly activated or deactivated". Whatever the cause, there does seem to be a significant difference pre Vs. post elevation.
====常见问题====
"这种变化可以修正吗?"
不,亮度设为0测出的MLL一样. 你可以看这里的数据.
"用户菜单中叫“亮”“暗”的“黑位”设置行吗?
该设置对面板的MLL没作用, 它只是压缩low percent stimuli (暗部细节) 为黑色. 他们得出完全一样的黑色. 我猜这选项是用来增加对比度的感觉.
"哪些产品线受到了影响?"
上面“最新进展”一节有详细报告。 2008年的PX/PZ系列似乎也受到影响 ( 见介绍). D-Nice's 和松下的联系暗示，所有2008、2009年的消费级产品受到影响。
"为什么有的人认为未受影响?
显然我无法肯定地说人人都受到了影响， 但我能找到一些原因，来解释为什么不是所有人都能发现这个问题。 首先要考虑到环境。 所有这些产品的抗反射滤光玻璃相对较差, 任何背景光都会让它难以发现。 显然这是大多数人的情况， 很少有人在全黑的房间看电视。 进一步说， 要真正对MLL回忆和感觉， 你需要在这个黑房间里专注的看面板，因为任何washed out daytime or lit use 都会潜在影响一个人的印象。 最后， 你要考虑到人们的心理预期。提升前, 这些面板产生的MLL'和CR和2008年中档的CCFL LCD差不多 (例如 Samsung A550/650/750/等)。许多用户和评测者描述它们拥有 "强烈、深邃的黑色" 和 "高对比度", 这就可以理解了。
"关于 IR/Phosphorescence怎么了? 许多画面看上去很脏!"
xrox 认为最可能的解释是"contain way too much wall charge and therefore cannot be properly activated or deactivated". 不管怎样, 在提升前后确实有明显不同。
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Comparisons
*This is my own 65S1 and 50G10. I am using the same meter, camera, and settings for this comparison.*
Below is a direct comparison (same meter, same environment) between an aged G10 and a brand new S1. These screen-caps show 11 readings of a 0% grayscale pattern. Point of interest is the "Y" row, which is a measurement of black in candela/square meter (cd/m^2) units.
65S1 @ < 20 hours of use, 0.006fL
50G10 @ > 1000 hours of use, ~0.019fL
Pictures of the above S1 Vs. G10 (same camera, settings, and environment--check the EXIF data):
The user L7R has posted some comparison shots of an inflated G10 and low quality LCD.
====比较====
*这是我自己的 65S1和50G10. 我使用相同的仪表,相机,和设置来做这次对比.*
以下是对一台老G10和全新S1的直接比较（一样的仪表，一样的环境）。这些截图显示了对0%灰度的11次度数。关键在Y轴，那是以烛光/平方米(cd/m^2)为单位的黑色测量值。
5S1 @ < 20 hours of use, 0.006fL
（图）
50G10 @ > 1000 hours of use, ~0.019fL
（图）
Pictures of the above S1 Vs. G10 (same camera, settings, and environment--check the EXIF data)
（图）
用户L7R 贴上了出问题的G10 和劣质LCD的比较图.
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本帖最后由Orta于02-05-10 at 05:30 PM编辑. |
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