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Posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net (A) on October 09, 2006 at 09:31:06
Im interested in building a new system. I do want the best bang for the buck out there. The best system ive heard is Levinson/Dynaudio confidence and Levinson/Wilson Maxx. But there is no way im going to fork out the dough for the top tear wilsons. Ok, ive had my mind set on levinson but again the money even at good bargain used pricing..is to high. In the last 24 hrs, Ive discovered the Dussun v8i by asking questions and searching through forums such as audiogon. I have to have that 3 deminsional deep wide sound stage where the music floats away but not too soft sounding like some of the tube sound ive heard on other sytems. I like the fast precise sound extracted from my dream sytems. The Dussun is a dream come true if its all what everyone is saying. Does anyone know how the new amps/preamps from levinson will compare to the Dussun? The savings will help me in other categories such as cd, speakers etc.
All inquries about any of the above equipment is highly appreciated.
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Follow Ups:
What about the Source ? - SoftwireEngineer 11:32:05 10/10/06 (1)
In Reply to: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net on October 9, 2006 at 09:31:06:
The kind of sound you are describing depends greatly on the source. IMO, if you have even a decent analog source, you can focus on the amps/speakers. But if you have a digital setup (or as the primary) then you need to focus on the source to get a very good sound. Digital source is very difficult to get it right.
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Re: What about the Source ? - montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net 12:16:55 10/10/06 (0)
In Reply to: What about the Source ? posted by SoftwireEngineer on October 10, 2006 at 11:32:05:
Mostly Cd and sacd playback. Ive yet to experiment with analog turn tables etc. Im taking it 1 step at a time. 2 channel with directv and a good universal disc player.
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Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson - a dainty man 08:15:02 10/10/06 (12)
In Reply to: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net on October 9, 2006 at 09:31:06:
the v8i takes an amazingly long time to break in, close to 60 days from what I can tell. During that time the image comes forward and the highs air out . When done, it is a very good sounding product, especially for the money. bass is phenomenal.
If you are seeking those spacial and textural qualities that are so difficult to find except in the most expensive separates - try the DK Signature. It delivers.
dainty
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Same experience... - Audio Pharaoh 11:21:06 10/10/06 (3)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by a dainty man on October 10, 2006 at 08:15:02:
> > the v8i takes an amazingly long time to break in, close to 60 days from what I can tell. During that time the image comes forward and the highs air out < < <
Yes this is true. The V8 takes about this much time to fully settle down and bloom. Soundstage is deep, wide and high enough to experience a good 3D sonic image. My friend almost had fits during that period thinking the amp would never break-in..lol!!!
AP
# The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men # Samuel L. Jackson (Ezekiel 25:17)> Pulp Fiction < Current Set-Up..Plinius CD101-> M8-> SA-201-> Genesis IM-8300 <-
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Re: Same experience... - montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net 12:13:58 10/10/06 (2)
In Reply to: Same experience... posted by Audio Pharaoh on October 10, 2006 at 11:21:06:
This is very good to know. I might just ask for a demo unit thats nearly broken in.
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Re: Same experience... - Audio Pharaoh 14:36:37 10/10/06 (1)
In Reply to: Re: Same experience... posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net on October 10, 2006 at 12:13:58:
Hi Charles,
Just pointing out that Im not a dealer for Dussun trying to push the amp etc..-) I just followed through my friend's experience with it and borrowed it for a couple of weeks when he was on his summer holidays just to get an onhand personal experience in my set-up.
My comments were based on what I heard in his set-up and in mine.
It's a very fine amp and though it may not appeal to everyone, taste and maybe synergy wise etc , it never failed to amaze those who came by and listened to it in both set-ups.
It does have a WOW factor for sure, but that is only due to its performance/specs vs price ratio...
Surely there are 'better' amps out there, nothing is absolute, but this one is a real winner..:)
Hope you get a chance to listen to one and relay your personal thoughts and opinions..
AP
# The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men # Samuel L. Jackson (Ezekiel 25:17)> Pulp Fiction < Current Set-Up..Plinius CD101-> M8-> SA-201-> Genesis IM-8300 <-
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Re: Same experience... - montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net 14:46:45 10/10/06 (0)
In Reply to: Re: Same experience... posted by Audio Pharaoh on October 10, 2006 at 14:36:37:
Yes im looking forward to listening to one. I mean at 1600.00 how can you go wrong. Im looking for products that are 3-5 times less money than the hyped equipment like levinson, classe, wilson and dynaudio.
Thanks again for your feed back,
Charles
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Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson - tvad 08:32:38 10/10/06 (7)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by a dainty man on October 10, 2006 at 08:15:02:
I'd like like to specify that the V8i I purchased was a show demo. It was fully broken in when I received it.
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Correction... - tvad 08:39:37 10/11/06 (3)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by tvad on October 10, 2006 at 08:32:38:
I am told by Dussun that the amp I auditioned had only 6 days of use on it. Therefore, it was not fully broken in when I recieved it, and I did not keep it more than a week. So, it's likely I never heard it at it's best.
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Tvad I've read yourr posts elsewhere about your Dussun audition. - "Red" 04:03:08 10/15/06 (0)
In Reply to: Correction... posted by tvad on October 11, 2006 at 08:39:37:
You shed a pretty negative light on the integrated that has likely influenced the opinions of others to be negative about it. While audiophiles should make up their own minds, forum posts sway attitudes.
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Tvad I've read yourr posts elsewhere about your Dussun audition. - "Red" 20:15:47 10/14/06 (0)
In Reply to: Correction... posted by tvad on October 11, 2006 at 08:39:37:
You shed a pretty negative light on the integrated that has likely influenced the opinions of others to be negative about it. While audiophiles should make up their own minds, forum posts sway attitudes.
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Couple of cold beers please..;-)...n/t - Audio Pharaoh 09:54:11 10/11/06 (0)
In Reply to: Correction... posted by tvad on October 11, 2006 at 08:39:37:
..
# The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men # Samuel L. Jackson (Ezekiel 25:17)> Pulp Fiction < Current Set-Up..Plinius CD101-> M8-> SA-201-> Genesis IM-8300 <-
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Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson - tvad 14:26:29 10/10/06 (0)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by tvad on October 10, 2006 at 08:32:38:
Warm up, break in, associated cables, etc. Yes, all these factors make a difference with any hifi product.
I have owned or auditioned half a dozen amps that sounded better out of the box and stone cold than did the V8i in my system. The others also continued to improve with time and with changes in wire.
The V8i is a very good amplifier for the money. It does not live up to the hype as a Rowland or Levinson beater, no matter how long one breaks it in or how many wires tries with it.
If it fits one's budget and satisfies one's criteria for good sound, then that's all that matters.
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Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson - a dainty man 13:02:25 10/10/06 (0)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by tvad on October 10, 2006 at 08:32:38:
The unit I auditioned came from a reviewer that put substantial time on the unit. When it arrived, it sounded terrible. Not for another 30 days did it sound good. I stated a 60 day break-in time based on my time and the break-in time the reviewer had. It seems that the amp suffers no adverse sonic effects from turning it off overnight, but leave it off for a week or so and it takes a while to get right again.
dainty
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Other variables.. - Audio Pharaoh 11:40:26 10/10/06 (0)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by tvad on October 10, 2006 at 08:32:38:
I've noticed that the V8i is very sensitive to IC's and Power cords, it can sound from below average to superb depending on the cables used with it. This might have been a reason why you didnt like it.
I had the same same feeling a couple of times with certain cables I used it with.
The V8i will not perform well with cables & power cords that act as tone controls or cables that emphasize certain frequencies over the others etc..
AP
# The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men # Samuel L. Jackson (Ezekiel 25:17)> Pulp Fiction < Current Set-Up..Plinius CD101-> M8-> SA-201-> Genesis IM-8300 <-
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I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. - tvad 16:39:12 10/09/06 (6)
In Reply to: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net on October 9, 2006 at 09:31:06:
Yes, it has a certain WOW factor upon initial listening. However, I found it did not have the 3D soundstage of my tube amplification, and it was a bit hashy in the upper midrange. It sounds significantly better with a separate preamplifier than it does as an integrated amplifier. It also has a sound that is on the warm side of neutral.
It's an excellent value for the money, but it's not a giant killer, IMO.
As others have said, it's a good idea to audition it in your own system.
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Re: I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. - montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net 16:49:34 10/09/06 (5)
In Reply to: I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. posted by tvad on October 9, 2006 at 16:39:12:
Good Feedback T
You are actually the first person that didnt put it up on a pedestal in the biggest way. At the same time you do praise it for the value. Being a tube guy and i can see the difference's in opinion from other viewers of this integrated amp. I have to ask, do you have any recommedations in place of the V8i? Im looking at a few speakers in Von Schwiekert Vr2 or 4, Lipnski 505 or 707 as the more affordable in line with my budget.
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Re: I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. - tvad 17:21:48 10/09/06 (4)
In Reply to: Re: I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net on October 9, 2006 at 16:49:34:
I heard the V8i on Von Schweikert VR4 Gen III HSE loudspeakers. Are you looking strictly for SS, or are tubes a consideration?
I will say, off the top of my head, that I can easily recommend the CI Audio D200 as a similar cost amplifier that I would buy before the V8i. Of course you would need a preamp. Also, a used McCormack DNA-2 with the Platinum upgrades sounds very similar to the V8i, IMO, but with a much sweeter midrange.
If you are only considering integrated amps, I'm afraid I don't have any direct experience with any other than the V8i. Depending on your budget, you might consider a used Audio Refinement Complete, used Plinius 9200, or new Qinpu A-8000. I have read great things about all of them from pro reviewers and real world users.
BTW, you might love the V8i, so it'd be worthwhile to audition it. Just go in with realistic expectations and allow the initial honeymoon period to pass before making the final decision.
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Re: I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. - montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net 17:50:31 10/09/06 (3)
In Reply to: Re: I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. posted by tvad on October 9, 2006 at 17:21:48:
Thanks again for your prompt follow up.
This is a fun hobby but there is so much out there and i can't listen to them without ordering and breaking them in first. To answer your question about SS or tube, i want to stick with the solid state. I dont have much experience with tube other than a conrad johnson/ joseph demonstration. It was really good but again for the money..i prefered the levinson/dyn or levinson/wilson. I havent really listen to anything else. A lot of philes in the biz try to steer away from the sought after high priced and high advertised products. Im looking for the best bang with again, 3d, wide, deep presise sound that will also float away from the speakers and put you in places other than the listening room and bring chills to your ears. I have to try out the v8i and either the von schwiekerts or newly discovered Lipinski 505 or 707. My concearn with them is that they wont have the slam im looking for in s speaker. I listen to Old Jazz, Jazz Fusion, R&B old school hits, New Wave and some Classical.
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Re: I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. - tvad 18:07:29 10/09/06 (2)
In Reply to: Re: I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net on October 9, 2006 at 17:50:31:
Much depends on your budget, which you haven't mentioned. Some folks claim to have a Chevy budget with Ferrari tastes. When it all shakes out, they actually had a BMW budget. Know what I mean?
The CI Audio D200 will give you the slam on the Von Schweikerts, as will the Plinius 9200. CI Audio often demonstrates their gear with Von Schweikert loudspeakers, and Dusty Vawter (owner of CI Audio) sells Von Schweikert. Of course, with the CI Audio D200 you will need a preamp...or a digital source with direct-to-amplifier capability. A used Lamm LL2 Deluxe preamp or used Modwright SWL9.0SE with the new tube rectified power supply could fill the bill for around $2000 - $2500. The Lamm creates a bit more holographic and slightly warmer presentation. The Modwright sounds pretty much like solid state, IMO, although the new tube recified power supply might change that a little.
Don't be afraid of a tubed preamp.
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Re: I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. - montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net 19:30:27 10/09/06 (1)
In Reply to: Re: I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. posted by tvad on October 9, 2006 at 18:07:29:
Ok.
I will be doing some auditioning of the amps and preamps. There arent alot of tube shops here in salt lake city. This is a very conservative state so there isnt to much of a market for it here as in California where im from originally. I will see what i can do..I know there is a place called upscale audio who carries the a lot of sonus faber and cary stuff along with several other tube manufatures in southern california. I will contact your list of suggested equipent makers and try to listen to them.
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Re: I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. - tvad 19:48:55 10/09/06 (0)
In Reply to: Re: I auditioned the V8i and I returned it. posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net on October 9, 2006 at 19:30:27:
Hearing the new gear is often not easy. I listened to the Lamm and Modwright preamps by purchasing used and re-selling (or not...in the case of the Lamm). You can find used Lamm LL2 and used Modwright SWL9.0SE preamps now on Audiogon. Same goes for the Plinius 9200.
The CI Audio D200 amps can be purchased and auditioned with a 30 day in home policy.
Also, the Rocky Mountain Audio Festival is coming up in a couple of weeks in Denver. That offers a good opportunity to listen to a variety of gear if you can attend. I know Modwright and CI Audio will be there.
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Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson - Audio Pharaoh 10:13:04 10/09/06 (7)
In Reply to: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net on October 9, 2006 at 09:31:06:
Hi,
> > > I have to have that 3 deminsional deep wide sound stage where the music floats away but not too soft sounding like some of the tube sound ive heard on other sytems. < < <
-I have no experience with ML gear, but the Dussun V-8i is a damn fine integrated amplifier and will give you just what you described above. With some tweaks here and there it will be even better sounding. It can be better described as a Power Amplifier with a volume control as it doesnt have the usual limitations of most integrated amps (even at its rated power etc..).
If you're already set on which speakers you'll be buying, I suggest you get a V-8i and live with it for sometime. It doesnt cost an arm or a leg and if u're not satisfied you could easily put it up for sale.
> > > The Dussun is a dream come true if its all what everyone is saying < < <
- Yes, what everyone is saying about it is true. Very tube - like presentation with the strengths of Solid State. Is it a dream come true ? Only you can answer this question relative to your set-up and tastes etc..But, it is a rare audio bargain for sure !
Hope this helps
AP
# The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men # Samuel L. Jackson (Ezekiel 25:17)> Pulp Fiction < Current Set-Up..Plinius CD101-> M8-> SA-201-> Genesis IM-8300 <-
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Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson - montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net 11:05:40 10/09/06 (6)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by Audio Pharaoh on October 9, 2006 at 10:13:04:
Thanks for the feed back AP
It all makes sense so far. Everyone who owns this peice of gear raves about it. And they seem to be true audiophiles. The equipment they are using tells me that. Im going to be building a new theater soon. The only thing is buying this amp will allow me to step up on speakers such as the wilson duettes or dynaudio c1. If i dont like the amp and ive spent the extra money on speakers then im stuck with inferior gear.
My other question is this amp fast and provide good separations with instruments in the sound? Im listen to about 60% jazz, 30% r&b and 10% classical.
C
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Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson - Audio Pharaoh 12:26:30 10/09/06 (2)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net on October 9, 2006 at 11:05:40:
You're welcome. The amp isn't that fast but not slow either but it's really very musical with very good instrumental seperation within the soundstage and a 3-D presentation with a very good black background, very much like good tube amps without the drawbacks. It will also certainly drive most difficult to drive loudspeakers.
I'd try and see if you could audition a well broken-in one just to get the feel of it and to see if the sound is to your taste. Most importantly too how it will synergize with the speakers you're set on buying etc..
AP
# The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men # Samuel L. Jackson (Ezekiel 25:17)> Pulp Fiction < Current Set-Up..Plinius CD101-> M8-> SA-201-> Genesis IM-8300 <-
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Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson - montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net 15:46:27 10/09/06 (1)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by Audio Pharaoh on October 9, 2006 at 12:26:30:
Thanks Pharoh
Im very tempted to try this amp. Im wondering if anyone's ever tried this Dussun amp with the Lipinski Moniters.
Chaz
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Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson - Martin the Martian 01:59:07 10/18/06 (0)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net on October 9, 2006 at 15:46:27:
For a true 3D soundstage you need good electrostatic speakers to start with.. and the Dussun delivers great power to those.
Btw you can order one from United Kingdom for 1050USD http://www.chinese-hifi.co.uk/index.htm
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Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson - Frihed89 12:17:07 10/09/06 (2)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net on October 9, 2006 at 11:05:40:
Hi Charles, I don't doubt that it's a good amp, but i think some of the praise heaped on it (and some other tube amps) is a reaction by some who are finding out for the first time that tubes and SS don't have to sound that different. Indeed, there are some SS preamps and amps that people rave about because they sound so tube-like, but also so SS in terms of dynamics.
Be careful. Pick the sound you like the best and the amp will follow.
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Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson - montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net 15:43:08 10/09/06 (1)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by Frihed89 on October 9, 2006 at 12:17:07:
Thanks for the feedback...
So you are saying this intergrated amp V8i has some dynamics matched with the right speakers? Some of the speakers im considering are the Dynaudio c1, Lipinski 505 & 707 Von Schweikert. For the price, these speakers are supposed to be all the hype. But what ive heard and like are the levinson/dynaudio and levinson/wilson configurations, again but the price is so steep even if you buy it at bargain prices.
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Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson - Frihed89 23:33:33 10/09/06 (0)
In Reply to: Re: Dussun V8i compared to Mark Levinson posted by montgomery.charles@worldnet.att.net on October 9, 2006 at 15:43:08:
I haven't heard this tube amp; i am generalising from my experience with other "modern" tube amps, which as a rule do have more dynamics than the old syrupy sounding tube amps. When I mean dynamics i mean the ability to keep up with the orchestra in tempo and volume. I am not sure if some speakers are faster then others, as modern drivers should have solved these problems. But I could be wrong.
I am not a fan of dynaudio sound, even through they are danish. They have too much glare for me. I have heard the VS speaker and it is very good, but i was not listening seriously.
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